Kirill Gerstein won the Gilmore Artist Award, one of the most prestigious honors available to a classical pianist, in 2010. With his prize money, he commissioned new works from a small array of noted composers — including the jazz legend Chick Corea.
"The Visitors" is the 12-minute piece that Corea wrote specifically for Gerstein and a mutual friend, the vibraphonist Gary Burton. It builds on a legacy of eloquent vibes-and-piano dialogue that began with the groundbreaking 1972 Corea-Burton ECM Records album Crystal Silence, and continued until Burton’s retirement from performing in 2017.
It also honors the formative role that Burton played in Gerstein’s career, going back to the pianist’s youth in St. Petersburg, Russia. I recently talked with Gerstein and Burton to reflect on their history, how it unfolds in the piece, and how this recording — which captures one of only two performances of the piece, at the 2012 Gilmore International Piano Festival — honors the memory of Corea, who died in 2021.
Watch our full conversation here, and find an edited transcript below.
Because there's so much history between the two of you, I thought we could begin at the beginning, which is St. Petersburg. So Gary, you're on tour in Russia — and Kirill, you're 12, I believe. Could you both recall the circumstances around your first encounter?
Gary Burton: I was taken on my night off to this local Russian jazz festival to meet some local musicians. Normally, in most parts of the world, I wouldn't have thought that was of particular interest to me. But every time I've been to Russia, I've had fascinating interactions with the musicians that I get to meet. So I was taken backstage, and there were a handful of musicians who wanted to ask me questions. But no one spoke English except this 12-year-old youngster who became the unofficial translator of the meeting. People finally drifted away and we were just standing there. I said, "Well, who are you?" And he said, "I play the piano. I played earlier, did you hear me?" And I said, "No, I just got here." So he said he would drop a tape off at my hotel. A week or so later I had a chance to play it, and I was really impressed. And I thought, "This guy deserves to get out into the world." That began a two-year process of legalities and applications and paperwork, to invite Kirill to ultimately move to Boston to attend Berklee.
I'm so curious to know what was on the tape!
Burton: It was solo piano, jazz music — very much reminiscent of Keith Jarrett's solo piano style, and it was very mature. You hear prodigies frequently in the music world these days, and you know whether they sound fully formed as players or not. What really struck me was that I would never have guessed I was listening to someone 12 years old, and that was a big sign to me, that he wasn't just a prodigy in the usual sense. That he was, you know, the real thing.
Kirill, at that point, were you thinking more along the lines of pursuing a jazz career?
Kirill Gerstein: I started, as so many children did in the Soviet Union, with classical piano. But I was lucky also from the start, particularly with my mother, who was one of my teachers — not necessarily for piano, but for ear training and harmony. My piano teachers encouraged me early enough that, since I got fascinated with the sound of jazz through some recordings in my parents' LP collection, I tried to imitate the sound. For a long time I had an aspiration to be both, and also a certain lack of clarity — you know, what was I going to be when I grow up? But of course I had much more thorough training and opportunity to study classical music. And when Gary says that the tape I sent was solo piano, I had never really had a chance to to play jazz with anybody else, so it was solo by necessity. Then, through meeting Gary and eventually coming to the States, it gave me the chance to explore jazz, and for the first time to to really study it and be surrounded by the environment of these incredible jazz musicians.
When you met Gary, did you have any sense that this was a fateful encounter?
Gerstein: Well, I mean, the recollections are very vivid. Just taking a step back, when I left the Soviet Union for the first time for a trip, I got sent by my school, and it was still sort of the twilight of the Soviet Union. The school delegated you to go abroad. So I went to a piano competition for youth in Poland, and there met somebody who organized jazz workshops — where, in fact, professors from Berklee would come. That was the summer before I met Gary. And there were bootleg tapes being sold literally on the pavement of these Polish cities, selling for about a dollar a tape — which at that time was enormous money for us, because the ruble was not convertible, so we barely had any dollars. But with whatever I had, also from the competition prize, I bought recordings like a very hungry person. Including Crystal Silence, by Gary Burton and Chick Corea, and Keith Jarrett's Köln Concert, and so on. So of course, I knew what an amazing musician Gary is, and what a legend he is. I don't know if I felt it was fateful, but I felt a connection. I felt that there was a lot of serendipity, that I could speak English and got a chance to be the translator, which I very much enjoyed. And I remember then making the tape for Gary. I was all filled with this wonderment of whether it would lead to something. But, in fact — as I've told Gary numerous times, and it's the truth — our encounter really changed my life in every way, as a person, as a musician. So it was indeed incredibly fateful.
There's a long history of outreach internationally from Berklee — and Gary, you were vice president at the time, and during your tenure it became a real priority. But making the arrangements to bring Kirill and his mother to the States must have required a lot of bureaucracy and red tape.
Burton: We had no guarantee that we would succeed. A big help to this undertaking was the President of Berklee at the time, Lee Berk, who was very sympathetic to the idea. With no claim to fame or anything for having taken on the attempt, we just thought it sounded like a good thing to do. Of course no one else had really heard Kirill's playing. [To Gerstein]: You were sort of an unknown when you arrived at Berklee. But then you quickly became a standout student. Even recently I even talked to a couple of teachers from that era who remembered you well. You went by the name Cyril then, Americanized your name to make it easier for people to remember what to call you. But yeah, we didn't know if it would work or not. And I was really thrilled when the word came through that you were coming.
Gerstein: From our side, the assistance from Berklee was incredible. Still it was not easy, bureaucratically, because we learned that two or three times, the invitations and letters from Gary were conveniently ejected from our post box. They disappeared, though other letters definitely arrived. So it was specifically aimed, what was coming through and what wasn't. Then we had to find a fax machine that somebody owned in Moscow — which was a big deal in the early '90s — to circumvent the post. I had to go to the Embassy to have the interview. But I must say also, when we look at it now, it's amazing that it worked. And it's amazing as a sign of cultural dialogue and educational exchange, how Berklee and the U.S. officials were able to interact and help in those days.
So when you get to Berklee, you find yourself in an entirely different environment. You have peers who are interested in both jazz and classical music, and I would imagine that you felt like the world had opened up. What was your response to that?
Gerstein: I felt like I was at the world's most luxurious dinner, but with an all-you-can-eat option. I was just drinking and eating all day and night. It was incredible. And in those days we still had Tower Records next door to Berklee, so just the availability of the library, of the recordings in the store, and of all the faculty and the students. And you know how vibrant the Berklee community can be. So it was truly overwhelming, but in a positive sense. I think it was also something that helped me overcome the nostalgia and the anxiety of having left one's home country. And because I was just so enthused and enthusiastic about finally getting access, I had this built-up hunger for more information of all kinds — and I could get anything, a plethora. One thing I still always think about vis-à-vis Berklee: in most ensemble classes, the students play with the teachers. In that sense it's quite different from a standard classical conservatory, where the teacher observes and critiques. So this chance to play not only with peers but also with the senior practitioners of the art, that was amazing. And of course my lessons with Gary in his Vice President's office were the absolute musical highlights.
Was there a point at which it became apparent that the classical performance track was speaking to you — that, even as you were interested in jazz improvisation, really it was a classical career that you were pursuing?
Gerstein: After about three years at Berklee, I felt — and it was a teenage feeling where you think things are much more black and white. But I had a feeling like "Well, I have to make a choice." Both art forms are so involving, and one could do it day and night and still not have enough time for one or for the other. So possibly I gave in a little bit into the prevailing opinion, like, "Well, you have to choose." I would probably give a student in my position slightly different advice, but I think it was difficult to get advice, because there are so few people that do classical and jazz at a high level simultaneously. When you spoke to jazz people, you got one side. When you spoke to classical people, you got the other side. So at that point I thought, "Well, I have to choose." And then after long deliberations, I thought, "Well, just the literature that we have as pianists in the classical repertoire is — it's the best in the world, as far as a solo instrument goes." I think it's not even controversial to say, because we have more repertoire than violinists or cellists, or anybody, and some of the best thoughts that composers have committed to paper are for the piano. So I thought in the long run — despite the great joy of improvising, and that creative process — that being a scholar and practitioner of these pieces that are some of the highest thoughts of some of our greatest composers, maybe that's what calls me. I think now, I would have told my younger self that there are ways to be less radical about that decision. My stance essentially has been softening ever since. Now I have a project that Brad Mehldau and I do that involves more and more improvisation; Gary and I have done stuff in the past a bit. So I am going more and more towards doing various things and not calling, you know, "am I in this world or in that world." It's about the particular piece.
I'm glad that you mentioned the teenage feeling, because we haven't talked much about the fact that you were so young. Gary, as a former prodigy yourself, and someone who has worked with a number of really talented young musicians, can you share perspective on Kirill at that age, and what his growth was like as you were mentoring him?
Burton: When I was interacting with Kirill at Berklee, I only knew him as a jazz musician. I remember hearing that he had graduated and gone on to the Manhattan School of Music to get his master's degree, and then I sort of lost touch with where he was from that point on, temporarily. I didn't realize he was focusing on the classical side. And then, next thing I knew, he had won a big competition, and I said, "Oh, there's Kirill again, and now he's making a name for himself in the classical field." And how rare that is; I can count on one hand the pianists who do both classical and jazz at that level. And in fact, I've wanted to ask Kirill all along: You approached me around 2011 with the idea of asking Chick to write a piece. I talked to him about it, and he was receptive, so I told you to go ahead and contact him, and see what you could work out. I've always wondered how much of a conversation you had with Chick about the piece you were requesting? Did you leave it up to him completely? Or did you have some guidelines as to what you were looking for?
Gerstein: When I approached Chick, I went to meet him at the Blue Note. I heard a fantastic concert of his. I had a nice recommendation letter from you, so he welcomed me backstage, and then I spent a wonderful and memorable hour or so in his dressing room, and described my path, and what a hero he had always been for me. I told him that I play written-down music, but at the same time I'm not unversed in notes coming from other places than just the dots on the page. And also I told him that with the money from the Gilmore, I was interested in commissioning various composers. Some were established classical composers, but I said I was also interested in provoking a great improviser, such as himself, to notate and work out certain certain things compositionally, and what that would do for his creative process.
Of course Chick was and is a composer. But these longer-form concert pieces were not always the bread and butter of what he did every week, so that seemed interesting to him. I said that I want to be challenged by anything he writes, in terms of written-down notes for the piano. I'll try my best, and also want to be challenged, reconnecting to some of my roots as an improviser. I think it was immediately in the air that it should be a duo piece — because, you know, Gary was sort of the connecting figure for this whole undertaking. So I think it emerged instantly that this was going to be a piece for vibraphone and piano. Other than that, I always thought that when one commissions, one should be the catalyst, and give free range to the muse.
Burton: Chick did call me after he had accepted the job, and asked me what my thoughts were, and did I have any requests or suggestions? And my reply was that I wanted him to make sure that you were the main player. It was your idea to do this, and I didn't want him to think that somehow, because he and I had been friends and colleagues for so long, that he would feature me, and you would be accompanying me. I wanted to quickly make clear that that was not a good concept, that it should be heavily featuring you — and if you ever had a decision between who to give more of the load to, I said, "Give it to Kirill."
Gerstein: In the piece there's a Latin bass ostinato in 7/4 with this kind of metric asymmetry, and he said: "Well, this is the kind of stuff that I'm fascinated with right now." He said: "You know, this is really challenging for me, to improvise on a looping groove, but one that's not in a standard or common meter." In a good piece there is all of that: who it was written for, meaning Gary; who it was written for, meaning my peculiarities; and also, luckily and wonderfully, what was on Chick's mind as a musician, composer, and player himself.
Do you feel like you are in conversation with Chick as you're playing the piece?
Gerstein: This is what links to my classical side; it's what one practices every day. Calling it "interpretive" is a problematic word, but you try to become the conduit for — maybe not even the person, but for the notes that this person produces. Of course it's clear that in the case of Chick in this piece: one hears his language, one hears him at the piano, so it is an amazing shape-shifting opportunity as a pianist to have this privilege, to channel a great composer and a great composer-pianist. It's very idiomatically written for the instrument. So I do feel that. And of course, having grown up with the Burton-Corea duo sound. So feeling like it's a conversation, but ever more so, it's recognizing the language and the fortune of having the chance to to channel Chick in this case. And yet, still I would say that as recognizable as he is, this composed language of the piece and some of these solo piano passages bring something else that you didn't always necessarily hear in his improvised solos or intros. So he is also somewhat shapeshifted by the process of composing.
I think that's absolutely true. Now, help me understand where the improvisation comes in, because I feel like there's a point over that ostinato when things seem to open up. How does he create space for you to improvise?
Gerstein: There is the opening cadenza, which is written out completely. Then there is this ensemble statement of the composed material. And then there is a kind of free moment where Gary and I are really in the conversation in the way that that we know from from Gary's duos with Chick: sort of a free-roaming, commenting thing, Then there's another piano section that's composed by by Chick, and then we get to the to the Latin ostinato, where the bass line is written out for the piano. I don't think he writes out the comping, but there's the bass line, and Gary is suggested to play a solo, and then we switch places. There's a piano solo, and there were some suggested notes that Gary elaborates on, and then there's a kind of closing coda that's written out. So in that sense, the piece really spans this from a 100% composed to 100% improvised, and whatever is in between.
Burton: Chick also told me, "Anytime you feel like deviating from what is written, feel free to do so." So there are a few places — in fact, I would like to see the score again. To be honest, it occurred to me, while I was listening to it recently, that I wonder what was actually written, or how closely I adhered to it. Because I knew in some cases, I was taking liberties as we were creating each performance. I might back up and also describe how we went about learning it.
Yes, please do!
Burton: Chick sent us the music, and I had it for about a week or 10 days before the rehearsal. We had planned to rehearse here in Florida. A friend of mine had a grand piano, and they were going to be gone for the day, so I got a key to the house and had the piano tuned, and we were going to spend that day playing the piece together for the first time. Kirill had been in Sarasota, Florida, playing a concert a couple of days earlier, and spent a day practicing his part in preparation. So we didn't have months in advance of preparation time. It was fairly quickly brought together. We had that one day of rehearsal here in Florida, and then we performed it the first time at Berklee, in Boston, and then a few months later went to the Gilmore International Competition in 2012 and performed it the second time, which is where the recording came from. Listening to the recording — knowing that we hadn't had a lot of time to work on it, to develop it further, to polish it and so on — I would half-expect it to sound like it had rough edges here and there. But it doesn't. That was this big surprise when hearing the recording, was how settled and comfortable and confident the performance came off. Given that, normally with a piece like that, you would maybe have played it 20 or 30 times in concerts, you know, getting used to it. But in this case we did it very quickly, and I was really blown away frankly by how good it sounded.
Did Chick have a chance to hear one of those two performances?
Gerstein: Very much so. First of all, I think even on that day in Florida that Gary just told you about, at the end of the day we made a very rough run-through and sent it to Chick. I have the email exchanges, and he gave a few comments, and we were able to incorporate these comments for the performance several weeks later at Berklee. Then I sent him the recording from Berklee, which he was very approving of, and he had a few more suggestions. The Gilmore performance was still maybe a month and a half later, and I did send him the unmixed radio broadcast that we had right after that concert. I have an email from him that says something like, "Well, it sounds great. I enjoyed listening. Now you've both really got it." And so we have the stamp of approval from the great man. It's very sweet to have it. I was looking things up related to this release. I said, "I want to see what is still in my mailbox from Chick." So there's a little chronicle of those few months, with the genesis and the gestation of the piece.
Chick Corea's The Visitors, featuring Gary Burton and Kirill Gerstein, is out on ECM.
